Peter
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Post by Peter on Jun 3, 2014 7:50:00 GMT
I believe that we need from Kyle the log files from emoce and from Chino Caneo during the first hacking incident and not only the second.. Unfortunately Kyle wont release information on random players to random people like me on the internet without a good reason. They have privacy rights also, and so far there is nothing to warrant expecting this kind of information. I mean he isn't going to just dump his whole security log for the past year in a dropbox for me. Speaking for myself, and from what evidence has surfaced I am happy to say that Colosal appears to be the hacker from multiple vector points. I am aware that is not a popular view, or one that makes people happy, but I am interested in only the facts, not what is comforting to believe I am afraid. If I was interested in comforting beliefs, rather than truth, I would be religious. Kyle has unbaned all his accounts in good will, and all he would need to do to carry on is buy the missing SC, not really an unfair request since they were stolen goods. Even assuming the absurd suggestion that he didn't know they were suspect at all, in the real world if you buy a stolen car - it gets taken by the cops and you don't get your money back. Same story here, so its a fair deal all round.
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Post by Holy Punisher on Jun 3, 2014 8:08:51 GMT
I understand that it will be too much info for Kyle to share with all of us. But it is strange that if Kyle said that Emoce was involved (had the same IP with Colly), why he didn't investigate further (or did he?) to see when and how many times Emoce's IP changed from the regular one to a new one. Anw I don't believe that we will ever have all info available to say with certainty what really happened. I just want to believe that Colly is innocent..
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Peter
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Post by Peter on Jun 3, 2014 8:15:44 GMT
You are welcome to believe that and as I mentioned Colly's only requirement is to rebuy some sc and he will be restored fully on SE side. I don't see that as unreasonable in light of what happened, and how in light of how inconsistent the initial story we were told was. If I was Colly I would just do that and move on regardless of guilt or innocence.
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Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Jun 3, 2014 8:17:09 GMT
Speaking for myself, and from what evidence has surfaced I am happy to say that Colosal appears to be the hacker from multiple vector points. I am aware that is not a popular view, or one that makes people happy, but I am interested in only the facts, not what is comforting to believe I am afraid. If I was interested in comforting beliefs, rather than truth, I would be religious. What are those facts and angles? Kyle just showed a log of Colosal's accounts and that they have his IPs on them. Wow, just as I thought, great evidence. It proves account belongings. Nothing else. When the hack was done? Where the concrete evidence that it was done by Colly's IP? There are none. Kyle doesn't make a great investigator. And that guy, emoce, look at his posts talking about legendaries and foils, here is the motive. He likes shiny. Yeah, it also fines you the cost of the car, so you end up on negative balance.
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bicin
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Post by bicin on Jun 3, 2014 8:22:11 GMT
who is BP emoce? is he from indonesia?
whew, just glad that everything about this has cooled down a bit.
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Peter
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Post by Peter on Jun 3, 2014 8:23:59 GMT
"What are those facts and angles? Kyle just showed a log of Colosal's accounts and that they have his IPs on them. Wow, just as I thought, great evidence. It proves account belongings. Nothing else. When the hack was done? Where the concrete evidence that it was done by Colly's IP? There are none. Kyle doesn't make a great investigator. "
Also the logs posted from the BP probards forum has the same IP for the last year - as far as the logs go back, and that emoces IP is totally different and appears to be an inactive player. Its possible he is implicated, maybe he gave colly a tool to use I don't know.
"Yeah, it also fines you the cost of the car, so you end up on negative balance." The purchase of the car initially would have sent you into 'negative' - in this case the 'purchase' was deducted afterwards. Seems fair to me and consistent.
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Post by Holy Punisher on Jun 3, 2014 8:29:38 GMT
You are welcome to believe that and as I mentioned Colly's only requirement is to rebuy some sc and he will be restored fully on SE side. I don't see that as unreasonable in light of what happened, and how in light of how inconsistent the initial story we were told was. If I was Colly I would just do that and move on regardless of guilt or innocence. I don't agree with this Pete. If I was wrongfully accused, why should I buy these crystals? We have a saying in Greece "Και κερατάς και δαρμένος" (if you want to translate it ), roughly meaning that even if you are the victim of a case, you have to pay on top. And beside that, if he doesn't want to play this game again as he said, he has no reason to do and restore his accounts fully. I get that what you said is about fairness but on the other hand I can name millions of things in everyday life that aren't fair. Because I don't want to go this that far I will give a SE example. When you buy 10 boosters and you get only 1 foil while you have % chance, is this cheating from Kyle's side? For me it is. I know you will tell about statistics, but do we have statistics from Kyle that from the beginning of the game until now he has given 20% foils in the boosters? And this is just a small example that came to my mind atm.
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Peter
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Post by Peter on Jun 3, 2014 8:34:03 GMT
Because he used the stolen goods, same as if you buy a stolen Hi-Fi. You don't get the money back when the police come and retrieve it. "If I was wrongfully accused" I don't agree he was wrongfully accused, so your perspective differs from mine I am afraid. If he was wrongfully accused of stealing the hi-fi and it was taken from him, he should get it back after being cleared. This has not happened in Kyles mind and so the fine is to be paid. Simple "When you buy 10 boosters and you get only 1 foil while you have % chance, is this cheating from Kyle's side? For me it is" Yes because I opened 10 and got 3 foils
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Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Jun 3, 2014 8:37:09 GMT
The purchase of the car initially would have sent you into 'negative' - in this case the 'purchase' was deducted afterwards. Seems fair to me and consistent. Even if that was a gift from another person?
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Post by Holy Punisher on Jun 3, 2014 8:39:37 GMT
Lol about the foils If he is guilty ofc I agree that he has to pay, although again I don't see a point here to do it because I doubt Kyle will send the police to him. So no threat if he doesn't do it. But as I can see it, we don't know with certainty what happened. Thus why I try to be neutral until further update.
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Raphael Majere
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Post by Raphael Majere on Jun 3, 2014 8:42:26 GMT
Erm, let's try to keep things cool and to reemphasis: Kyle unbanned colly but in Kyle's mind, he is still guilty and Kyle is just being generous and lenient by unbanning colly. If colly wants to play the game again, he still has some gold to buy cards but his SCs are in negative figures. If colly wants to come back to SE and needs his some help (SCs or $$$) to repay the SCs debt, I will be at the front of the line to do my part. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Peter
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Post by Peter on Jun 3, 2014 8:44:03 GMT
The purchase of the car initially would have sent you into 'negative' - in this case the 'purchase' was deducted afterwards. Seems fair to me and consistent. Even if that was a gift from another person? If you accept a stolen hi-fi as a gift the item is taken away from you. If that gift is a virtual item with a monetary value it must be given back. Since he doesn't have them to give back, it is removed by putting the account in negative. That is all that happened, what was stolen was taken back. Had he had a positive balance and not spent them then the account would not be in negative at all. Anyway regardless of personal feelings, I think that some members would be happy if Colly came back anyway so I don't see any reason for him to have left. From what I understand anyway.
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Peter
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Post by Peter on Jun 3, 2014 8:45:23 GMT
Looks like Raph confirmed what I thought, so there is nothing stopping him from returning except himself. Get mad at him if he doesn't come back, he is the author of his own destiny.
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Post by The Haydes on Jun 3, 2014 10:18:47 GMT
In my opinion B and C are unlikely and as Kyle mentioned the account that benefited is Collys, so Emoce would be doing all this just to give Colly crystals or an unknown hacker is doing it to tar Collys reputation. I don't find that a likely scenario not actually achievable (spoofing IP across 3 separate platforms - even 1 is enough). In fact I don't believe that IP spoofing could be used across all 3 platforms, as PB for example verifies with the source IP in a 3-way handshake before posting a thread. I assume SE forum is similar. www.iss.net/security_center/advice/Underground/Hacking/Methods/Technical/Spoofing/default.htm"A common misconception is that "IP spoofing" can be used to hide your IP address while surfing the Internet, chatting on-line, sending e-mail, and so forth. This is generally not true. Forging the source IP address causes the responses to be misdirected, meaning you cannot create a normal network connection." Emoce wouldn't have used IP spoofing since that would cause issues as you stated above. He would have set up Colly's PC as a proxy, which would work and is made a lot easier by the fact that Colly has a static IP. It would look like 2 distinct hops, Emoce to Colly and Colly to the internet. Since Emoce goes through Colly, everything shows Colly's IP. I'm not saying that is what happened, just that it is 100% doable by a hacker.
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Bobbypim
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Post by Bobbypim on Jun 3, 2014 10:21:01 GMT
As Raph also stated in the OP Colosal gave up too easy... And that's why I personally was/is doubting the complete innocence of Colosal! If it was me and I was truely innocent I would fight with all that I got for the game, guild and community I love! That's very simple, at least to me! But we're all different and Colosal is an emotionel guy and he acts on his gut feeling, so I guess we'll never know what really happened and who the hacker/hackers is/are! People are just guessing here based on own beliefs and we can keep on doing this for a long long time. So my point is... If you got something to say or add, do it now and let's close this case and move on! I'll finish with a personal tribute to Colosal though. Colosal, I respect and care about you very much and I want to thank you one last time for the million contributions you've done to this guild! You if no one else is a big big reason for the succes of this guild! Thanks! Take care Bobbypim out!
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Peter
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Post by Peter on Jun 3, 2014 10:23:45 GMT
Good idea.
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Raphael Majere
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Post by Raphael Majere on Jun 3, 2014 10:34:19 GMT
As Raph also stated in the OP Colosal gave up too easy... And that's why I personally was/is doubting the complete innocence of Colosal! If it was me and I was truely innocent I would fight with all that I got for the game, guild and community I love! That's very simple, at least to me! But we're all different and Colosal is an emotionel guy and he acts on his gut feeling, so I guess we'll never know what really happened and who the hacker/hackers is/are! People are just guessing here based on own beliefs and we can keep on doing this for a long long time. So my point is... If you got something to say or add, do it now and let's close this case and move on! I'll finish with a personal tribute to Colosal though. Colosal, I respect and care about you very much and I want to thank you one last time for the million contributions you've done to this guild! You if no one else is a big big reason for the succes of this guild! Thanks! Take care Bobbypim out! Post ur tribute here, bobby! wotbp.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=22&thread=5295&post=104961
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Post by Colosal on Jun 3, 2014 10:58:33 GMT
You wanna know why i left? Read this thread and all the others you made about this topic and be on my shoes for 1 second and tell me what any of you would do. I'm emotional? yes and i couldn't and can't believe that most of you have doubts of my innocence. Is so easy to talk when you are looking everything from outside...
I gave up? I never did, i just decided that Guardians here were not giving the proper importance to this and i took my own way. I also had no proof to use in my fight because the last evidence i posted last night, was in SE forum from which i was banned until yesterday when i could get that pm back. Why i don't send the letter since day 1? Because i was told that Guardians here were taking care about my problem and after almost a week without news about it, i decided that it was enough (also after reading that people that i helped were saying that i was a hacker).
Now to the topic: My ip is static because is a common usage for companies in Argentina and i think in SouthAmerica so they can trace internet frauds easily. From whati read, any of you really read any of my posts and just went Kyle's way (which now that i'm not mad, i can see that it has its point even when he could have done a better investogation and i'll tell you how later). Emoce was always a nice kid with everyone (he even calls me Grandpa Colly or uncle to everyone in the BP channel) he was about to leave this game, we had a long chat about it and he wanted to give me all his crystals (now i know that they werent yours). That's why i didn't ask, because i already have the reason of why of the gift and also an explanation from him from where the crystals come. Lol, you now say that i should have asked, how many of you would have done it in my situation?.
What i'm trying to prove here i'll do it with an example.
My ip is 123 and emoce's ip is 456, Kyle has this proof.
Colosal 123 Colosal 123 Chino caneo 123 Colosal 123 Colosal 123 Chino caneo 123 Colosal 123 Chino caneo 123 hack Emoce 123 hack the other 3 accounts he used 123 hack
Looking it that way, i'm the hacker but if you check emoce's ip history you'll see this:
Emoce 456 Emoce 456 Emoce 123 hack
THis is what i'm trying to tell you. I can be wrong because i know nothing about hacking but i made a full investigation about it after my ban (even tho i understand very little from what i read).
He had my log in info from Chino caneo and my ip from IRC, the rest is easy math. Is very easy to mask your ip, everyone knows that, but is also easy to use someone else's ip. i have an spanish tutorial about how to do it in windows 7 that i can post here if anyone wants to translate.
He used my account and ip to hack. Emoce nve been active (i think he is been a member from before i joined) but some of you had a word with him or even some of you helped him with decks and stuff from what i heard.
i never gave up, just took a different path from Guardians. perhaps i rushed in leaving, i have a ton of people telling me that but at some point i felt left aside and it got worse when some friends started to show me posts from threads about me showing that most of members don't trust me. Why would i stay in a guild where i'm not trusted? This is a brotherhood, isn't it? But i was outside (yes, i demoted myself but only because i didn't want to drag BP with me. I am a hacker in public eyes).
Now this kind of threads trying to clean your hands and make Guardians look good and make me the villain here are really good. I've enjoyed every word and each post i read the last week, thanks for that "brothers".
I will post in the next post my letter to Kyle what made him unban me and this is my last word on the matter at least in public.
I have bad memory so i'm probably forgetting something that i'll add later (is 7 am here and im still sleepy).
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Post by Colosal on Jun 3, 2014 11:08:35 GMT
As you can see, i told him my name and where i live because i have nothing to fear since i'm innocent. I was going to add my address as well but after what happened and how everything was missunderstood, i can't trust anyone with my address because my family lives there.
kyle's answer:
From that you can read very clear that he still thinks that i'm the hacker and i don't blame him completely (except because of what i said about the ip matters in the other post. He decided to forgive the hacker but with a penalty of negative numbers in my SC balance. Is all cool, i won't thank him because this really changes anything, i don't want my account back, i want my name clean, thats it. I won't play SE anymore or even post in his forum. I'm just staying to clean my name and to prove that i'm innocent with the little tools i have.
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mightyoak
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Post by mightyoak on Jun 3, 2014 11:13:36 GMT
I've been irc all the time. Ive never been asked if I had questions..
Also. Ive only ever seen emoce once. On irc..he asks if he could talk to colly. Colly later said it was if emoce could use his account. This is all I can contribute. As its pretty much all I know.
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