theonecabs
Guardian
GoT V Champion & ManiaMaster
Posts: 2,280
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Post by theonecabs on May 27, 2017 15:45:29 GMT
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Unruler
Public
Warrior of the blue Aardvark!
Posts: 1,869
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Post by Unruler on May 28, 2017 2:35:08 GMT
I've no desire to read the whole charade, can you provide TL;DR as well?
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theonecabs
Guardian
GoT V Champion & ManiaMaster
Posts: 2,280
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Post by theonecabs on May 28, 2017 4:10:43 GMT
TLDR:
Wulven is crowd selling shares in Shadow Era.
People will buy an online currency (etherium) which will be traded for a fictional currency (called shadow tokens) which will confer voting rights in how the game is run, who is hired etc.
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theonecabs
Guardian
GoT V Champion & ManiaMaster
Posts: 2,280
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Post by theonecabs on May 28, 2017 4:13:22 GMT
I've no desire to read the whole charade, can you provide TL;DR as well?
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Lightning Fury
Inactive
Iron Throne Champion
"We are keepers of the peace, not soldiers"
Posts: 4,306
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Post by Lightning Fury on May 28, 2017 19:38:34 GMT
It doesn't look good. We'll be getting a part of the campaign before this and probably automated tournaments, but everything else, including LL part 2 and WC 2017 (still run by players smh) will be up to the board of directors. Whatever that will be.
It's very likely Wulven has gone bankrupt, and is now relying solely on the community to see it through. It's not a scam, but it's going to be a risk for anyone who wants to invest. I'll suggest waiting for Kyle to post financial statistics and more details and making sure there will be at least some profit involved before considering it.
BP is going to move forward whatever the outcome. SE will forever be the place where we started, but it's time to consider where the game is headed. The Guardians have discussed options where we establish ourselves in other games, and we are looking into some TCGs like Eternal which has a similar F2P model and a growing playerbase.
Let's wait and see where this leads.
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Unruler
Public
Warrior of the blue Aardvark!
Posts: 1,869
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Post by Unruler on May 28, 2017 22:34:22 GMT
TLDR: Wulven is crowd selling shares in Shadoe Era. People will buy an online currency (etherium) which will be traded for a fictional currency (called shadow tokens) which will confer voting rights in how the game is run, who is hired etc. Thanks, I feel like past SE now, that's why my sentence sounded kinda cold. It became obvious few years back (when I quit) that Kyle is simply not interested in its development and bailing on it. Instead of finding replacement for his position which GDC could've taken easily, he just proceeded to drag on and here we are now. So now he just trying to profit from people's desire to be game designers, am I right? Because he could just go open source and be done with it. And are people actually willing to put money in it? Because I don't really think it's a wise investment. I also quit HS and HOTS now, dunno what to play, lol.
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amberfade
Grandmaster
World Champion 2017
Posts: 661
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Post by amberfade on May 29, 2017 11:34:07 GMT
It doesn't look good. We'll be getting a part of the campaign before this and probably automated tournaments, but everything else, including LL part 2 and WC 2017 (still run by players smh) will be up to the board of directors. Whatever that will be. It's very likely Wulven has gone bankrupt, and is now relying solely on the community to see it through. It's not a scam, but it's going to be a risk for anyone who wants to invest. I'll suggest waiting for Kyle to post financial statistics and more details and making sure there will be at least some profit involved before considering it. BP is going to move forward whatever the outcome. SE will forever be the place where we started, but it's time to consider where the game is headed. The Guardians have discussed options where we establish ourselves in other games, and we are looking into some TCGs like Eternal which has a similar F2P model and a growing playerbase. Let's wait and see where this leads. Not sure if they are bankrupt, since this game doesnt have high maintenance cost (with the size of the com you could run the Servers on 2 PCs in your basement). The game probably doesnt generate enough money to get anything done with it. It looks more to me like they are trying to make community do their job instead and getting some change while peacing the fuck out. Eitherway I dont think the game is going anywhere. I agree that BP needs to move forward and probably branch out into other games, but that will definetely divide the guild. There is no way for example that I am going to play Eternal.
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Post by The Haydes on May 29, 2017 23:53:32 GMT
I would love to see SE get a fresh start. Does anyone think there is a chance that Kyle would sell the SE assets off?
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Post by qwertzy on May 30, 2017 2:15:30 GMT
I dont believe him when he said that if he would sell game to other company that game will die.This is much better solution than tokem.
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theonecabs
Guardian
GoT V Champion & ManiaMaster
Posts: 2,280
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Post by theonecabs on May 30, 2017 5:40:26 GMT
It's a bullshit excuse on his part. He just wasn't getting good enough offers so wants to make some more hay while the sun is shining and instead get the community that has supported the game through its slow, painful lifetime to cough up the money he needs to keep it going while putting more money into his nest egg.
It really doesn't surprise me.
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Post by The Haydes on May 30, 2017 12:25:12 GMT
I just read the thread and it doesn't look good. I would have much preferred a sale of the assets. Community ownership doesn't seem like it will fix the problem of non existent development. If there was enough existing cash flow, there would be money spent on dev... But there is surely isn't.
The mechanics of SE are still the best out there. Better than MTG, Hearthstone, or Eternal... But that can't save a game that hasn't changed much in the about 6 years since I loaded it up.
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wreon
Warrior
Plays with his COC & Former BP Leader
Iridescent Prince of the Future
Posts: 2,565
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Post by wreon on Jun 8, 2017 6:28:21 GMT
Holy crap has SE went to the gutter.
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Peter
Forum Admin
Posts: 1,534
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Post by Peter on Jun 16, 2017 1:48:57 GMT
Guys. Words of advice: do not under any circumstances throw your money away on this bitcoin-like currency 'stock' option. It reads like a total scam.
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Peter
Forum Admin
Posts: 1,534
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Post by Peter on Jun 16, 2017 2:11:41 GMT
Oh and in case anyone doesnt know how a business works, if he doesnt show both AFS and Tax returns you have no way of verifying if the AFS are legitimate - ie the net profit declared ties up to what was declared as taxable income. And if you buy a business you buy its debt so if the tax man hasnt been paid and you are the new owner then enjoy paying that off.
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Oblio
Inactive
Posts: 2,153
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Post by Oblio on Jun 18, 2017 2:45:11 GMT
Yikes! I totally agree with Pete. It looks like a scam. And the thing is... it doesn't even have to be an actual scam to be rejected out of hand as something that will never deliver on its promise. We can simply compare it to a different and vastly superior community-organized gaming model to realize the glaring inefficiencies in SE and how we could all be getting so much more for our money and passion. The alternative example I would point to for what a community like ours could be investing in is one like Lichess.org. It is flat-out the best, full-featured, most responsive, innovative chess site in existence (if you find that claim a bit too contentious then you might concede that is certainly competitive with any of the best subscription based sites). It also happens to be open source, transparent, and completely free. It is setup as a non-profit association founded by Thibault Duplessis (https://github.com/ornicar) whose charity and dedication got it off the ground and ensure the lights stay on. Capable coders who share the lichess vision collaborate on IRC to add awesome variants and continual improvements to the site. Folks like me who don't have any useful skills (unless we are talking hammer and nails) contribute voluntarily out of appreciation. There are no added features for patrons. No pay to play. Curious about what kind of money it takes to run an operation like that. Not much. About $50,000 a year. Look here for the breakdown... docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CGgu-7aNxlZkjLl9l-OlL00fch06xp0Q7eCVDDakYEE/edit#gid=0Like many of you, I have invested a significant amount of money into SE in years past. In terms of dollars spent per hour of entertainment I have zero regrets. And if I felt like SE could emerge healthy and functional I would gladly do it again...but the current "plan" looks like setting money on fire. Why would we buy shares of the ineptitude and dysfunction that we have already paid good money for when for a measly collective 50 grand we could have so much more? My point isn't that a game has to be set up on a non-profit Lichess model (although I think it would be awesome) and if someone develops a better TCG than SE I will gladly pay for it. But, if Wulven is trying to talk us into a communal investment project we should know what the options are and what our dollars could be buying. This community has invested far more than 50 grand a year and gotten far less than Lichess delivers to its players for free. There is TCG that exists in our collective dreams...one that harnesses the passion and creativity of its community of players, channels it through the talents of some dedicated programmers, pools enough money to keep the engine running... ...I'm not smart enough to put it together...but I will know it when I see it...and this bullshit that Kyle is pushing ain't it. I miss you brothers... Majulah BP!
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Unruler
Public
Warrior of the blue Aardvark!
Posts: 1,869
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Post by Unruler on Jun 18, 2017 19:01:11 GMT
There is TCG that exists in our collective dreams... This. So I think we should ditch SE and unite community to make our dream TCG, we have enough talent, I believe, what we really need is good motivation. Easier said than done. I've tried to make my own TCG but I can't attract people to help me. But anyhow, just go play HS it's essentially very similar game but executed professionally.
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