Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Dec 14, 2015 10:39:14 GMT
Gratz guys, but are there any other active guilds in SE community though?
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Raphael Majere
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Ancient Man & Winner of Termania I
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Post by Raphael Majere on Dec 14, 2015 10:52:31 GMT
Gratz guys, but are there any other active guilds in SE community though? A1, RS, 17, KA (on their own forum). TJ's not growing but their old guys are Damm loyal and some are active competitive players.
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vince1992
Grandmaster
SE World Champion 2015 & WC2014 Runner Up
Posts: 715
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Post by vince1992 on Dec 14, 2015 10:56:51 GMT
Gratz guys, but are there any other active guilds in SE community though? As I know RS is quite active and vivid after splitting from A1. You can see lots of veterans in RS who get qualified originate from A1. And some of small guilds did a good job this year, such as AP halalboy from AP and 17 paxvobiscum from 17 So this year WC geometrical distribution is like BP dominates at top while other guilds are equally struggling to get second. What an amazing year! lol
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Unruler
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Warrior of the blue Aardvark!
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Post by Unruler on Dec 14, 2015 15:52:21 GMT
Gratz guys, but are there any other active guilds in SE community though? A1, RS, 17, KA (on their own forum). TJ's not growing but their old guys are Damm loyal and some are active competitive players. I only know A1 and KA from the old days. Btw, how is SE overall, 2 years ago it felt like it was dying, is there influx of new players?
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vince1992
Grandmaster
SE World Champion 2015 & WC2014 Runner Up
Posts: 715
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Post by vince1992 on Dec 14, 2015 21:59:06 GMT
A1, RS, 17, KA (on their own forum). TJ's not growing but their old guys are Damm loyal and some are active competitive players. I only know A1 and KA from the old days. Btw, how is SE overall, 2 years ago it felt like it was dying, is there influx of new players? "This game is dying" is the image of the game. This game and community is somehow friendly to new players and deep strategy enough to get them addicted into it for 2 years. Even though, there were many veterans left out, there is balance between inflow of new players and outflow of old people
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Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Dec 14, 2015 22:11:43 GMT
I only know A1 and KA from the old days. Btw, how is SE overall, 2 years ago it felt like it was dying, is there influx of new players? "This game is dying" is the image of the game. This game and community is somehow friendly to new players and deep strategy enough to get them addicted into it for 2 years. Even though, there were many veterans left out, there is balance between inflow of new players and outflow of old people The problem is that development was so slow I felt it would stop any moment...
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vince1992
Grandmaster
SE World Champion 2015 & WC2014 Runner Up
Posts: 715
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Post by vince1992 on Dec 14, 2015 23:02:03 GMT
"This game is dying" is the image of the game. This game and community is somehow friendly to new players and deep strategy enough to get them addicted into it for 2 years. Even though, there were many veterans left out, there is balance between inflow of new players and outflow of old people The problem is that development was so slow I felt it would stop any moment... This game will end for sure like other games but not now. I am in PFG 4, that's what I can tell you
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Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Dec 15, 2015 5:56:00 GMT
The problem is that development was so slow I felt it would stop any moment... This game will end for sure like other games but not now. I am in PFG 4, that's what I can tell you The problem is that their approach to development felt like not serious, it was like Kyle was losing interest to the game, and it's very much one man corporation in Wulven's case and it's dangerous to spend a lot of money/time on something that can disappear any moment. I know, you maybe thinking: "Oh, that would not happen", but these games go very quickly. Idk if you know the game called Carte. It was quite popular in Asia. And it had serious development, there was a lot of content, I'm talking Pve 3 man boss fights, online tournament system (tournaments every 30 mins), new cards every month or so coming in small bunches, it looked like a healthy game. I left it quite awhile ago because it was hard to collect cards and I felt it was overly complex, but one of the best online tcgs out there. So this one day I wanted to recommend it to a guy alongside with SE and was checking out for a link and what do you think? GONE. Like a wind, bro. All your cards, all your money and time spend on this game wasted completely. I'm not saying that this would happen to SE, Gondorian would probably run servers even if he was only one playing (assuming he could), but still anyfin could happen, you know. At least I know Hearthstone is here to stay (still could be easily shut down in favor of other project, like they shut down their Warcraft TCG before HS, I wouldn't be surprised if they made HS available like WoW mini-game and transfer everything there or something like that, but still it's less likely, because Blizz is a healthy company and they can afford to support even dead projects just to keep their image). PS So moral of the story is that TCGs are designed as a money drain and as soon as devs decide that it doesn't drain enough - poof - gone.
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vince1992
Grandmaster
SE World Champion 2015 & WC2014 Runner Up
Posts: 715
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Post by vince1992 on Dec 15, 2015 9:27:52 GMT
This game will end for sure like other games but not now. I am in PFG 4, that's what I can tell you The problem is that their approach to development felt like not serious, it was like Kyle was losing interest to the game, and it's very much one man corporation in Wulven's case and it's dangerous to spend a lot of money/time on something that can disappear any moment. This is true, some people who have strong believe on this game may disagree. But this is not the business of players and of community. What we can do now is to enjoy this game. If you are not interested in this game anymore, you can just leave without hesitation (please dont leave BP in that way ). Frankly, this game is generous enough so that you dont need to invest money into this game (but I personally suggest community to back up this game by investing acceptable amount of money). In addition, imo, the primary goal to play a game is to have fun, to have fun and to have fun!!!!!! When you are enjoying the time with this game, you wouldn't take into account that this game costs my time in real life. I know, you maybe thinking: "Oh, that would not happen", but these games go very quickly. Idk if you know the game called Carte. It was quite popular in Asia. And it had serious development, there was a lot of content, I'm talking Pve 3 man boss fights, online tournament system (tournaments every 30 mins), new cards every month or so coming in small bunches, it looked like a healthy game. I left it quite awhile ago because it was hard to collect cards and I felt it was overly complex, but one of the best online tcgs out there. So this one day I wanted to recommend it to a guy alongside with SE and was checking out for a link and what do you think? GONE. Like a wind, bro. All your cards, all your money and time spend on this game wasted completely. I do understand how that feeling hurts you. I have encountered the same occasion in MMO:DOC, which just shut down its Chinese Version and iPad version where players do not get any compensation! And the global version appears to be off soon. At least I know Hearthstone is here to stay (still could be easily shut down in favor of other project, like they shut down their Warcraft TCG before HS, I wouldn't be surprised if they made HS available like WoW mini-game and transfer everything there or something like that, but still it's less likely, because Blizz is a healthy company and they can afford to support even dead projects just to keep their image). I do suggest SE players to play hearthstone which is really a fun game or at least take a try (I personally get tired of this game very rapidly due to its superficial strategy though). PS So moral of the story is that TCGs are designed as a money drain and as soon as devs decide that it doesn't drain enough - poof - gone. In practice, all games (not majority) are designed as a money drain because corporations are not charities but a corporate firm with a group of managers who aim at increasing shareholders' wealth, total value of the firm and so on. Frankly, I did put my money into this game for around $130 I think, but I earn money from it by playing WC) so I wont lose too much if they just shut down the game right after I receive my prize. Yet, like my indication above, this game is generous enough that you do not HAVE TO spend money. Even though, if you do spend money, you still enjoy a wonderful time with this game, don't you? That money trades for entertainment, imo, is a fair deal of business.
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Raphael Majere
Warrior
Ancient Man & Winner of Termania I
Posts: 10,728
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Post by Raphael Majere on Dec 15, 2015 9:45:03 GMT
An interesting topic started by Unruler and deserves its own thread and hence here it is
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vince1992
Grandmaster
SE World Champion 2015 & WC2014 Runner Up
Posts: 715
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Post by vince1992 on Dec 15, 2015 9:47:14 GMT
An interesting topic started by Unruler and deserves its own thread and hence here it is: Could you moderate my posts and quotations? they look so messy
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Raphael Majere
Warrior
Ancient Man & Winner of Termania I
Posts: 10,728
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Post by Raphael Majere on Dec 15, 2015 9:49:19 GMT
An interesting topic started by Unruler and deserves its own thread and hence here it is: Could you moderate my posts and quotations? they look so messy Yes, gimme a sec. The discussion was moving away on the original thread and hence I had to start this one. Edit: all done, let me know if I can be of further help.
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Raphael Majere
Warrior
Ancient Man & Winner of Termania I
Posts: 10,728
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Post by Raphael Majere on Dec 15, 2015 10:19:04 GMT
This game will end for sure like other games but not now. I am in PFG 4, that's what I can tell you The problem is that their approach to development felt like not serious, it was like Kyle was losing interest to the game, and it's very much one man corporation in Wulven's case and it's dangerous to spend a lot of money/time on something that can disappear any moment. I know, you maybe thinking: "Oh, that would not happen", but these games go very quickly. Idk if you know the game called Carte. It was quite popular in Asia. And it had serious development, there was a lot of content, I'm talking Pve 3 man boss fights, online tournament system (tournaments every 30 mins), new cards every month or so coming in small bunches, it looked like a healthy game. I left it quite awhile ago because it was hard to collect cards and I felt it was overly complex, but one of the best online tcgs out there. So this one day I wanted to recommend it to a guy alongside with SE and was checking out for a link and what do you think? GONE. Like a wind, bro. All your cards, all your money and time spend on this game wasted completely. I'm not saying that this would happen to SE, Gondorian would probably run servers even if he was only one playing (assuming he could), but still anyfin could happen, you know. At least I know Hearthstone is here to stay (still could be easily shut down in favor of other project, like they shut down their Warcraft TCG before HS, I wouldn't be surprised if they made HS available like WoW mini-game and transfer everything there or something like that, but still it's less likely, because Blizz is a healthy company and they can afford to support even dead projects just to keep their image). PS So moral of the story is that TCGs are designed as a money drain and as soon as devs decide that it doesn't drain enough - poof - gone. Going to defend Se a bit here: carte was good, tried it, didn't know it closed. but sadly, yes, that's how the current gamer/developer situation is: $$$ in, but no guarantees of how long the game will last. I think before any purchase, the developer would have some clause stating that he/they won't be responsible if the game goes down tomorrow. Probably impossible to get the $$$ back. SE is a interesting model. There are new players coming in; the SE forums indicate new players joining and yes, old players are also leaving. SE is interesting becos Wulven is clearly a very small company and TBH, without the work of GDC, SE would have folded long ago. A fan i.e. GDC,is responsible for the (positive) state of SE now. SE is very fortunate to have GDC (Though I don't think SE/Kyle deserves GDC). SE owes whatever success they have now to GDC, not any wulven employeee. I wouldn't compare SE to any other dTcgs or game really. It's pretty much a small, indie game with a loyal fan base. It's profits is probably small....but that works cos Wulven is not a big company anyways. Any hope that SE will become really huge is just naive. What irks me is that Wulven/Kyle often tries to inflate/project itself as a company capable of great things. IMO, it's much better to be honest with oneself. Nothing wrong/bad with being small. As long as it's functional and working. It has NEVER been on time when it comes to delivery of promises and products. SF, in case anyone has forgotten or did not know, was supposed to be COMPLETED in JAN 2014. It's almost 2 years overdue and it probably will go beyond 2 years. (WC 2014 was played with placeholder cards and tbh, it's totally embarrassing for any game but it will went relatively ok) Why are players still sticking with SE then? (Even I am playing MD SE like a monster, top 50 every week) (I have my own reasons for leaving competitive pvp Se tourney scene) It's like having a old stupid dog. Yeah, it can't do/learn new tricks, but it's reliable and comforting. Sometimes it doesn't even behave normally on a normal day. In fact, the super slow pace of SE dev might just be the Right pace for some players. scary, but yeah. Carte has folded (so has my fav dTcg Assassin's creed), but at least SE is amazingly, still here. Ok, me back to bashing noobs in MD.
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udy
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Post by udy on Dec 15, 2015 10:34:37 GMT
good words you have there Mr.Majere
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Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Dec 15, 2015 17:52:51 GMT
First of all, gj Raph on moving this discussion, we went a bit off topic on that one xD This is true, some people who have strong believe on this game may disagree. But this is not the business of players and of community. What we can do now is to enjoy this game. If you are not interested in this game anymore, you can just leave without hesitation (please dont leave BP in that way ). Frankly, this game is generous enough so that you dont need to invest money into this game (but I personally suggest community to back up this game by investing acceptable amount of money). In addition, imo, the primary goal to play a game is to have fun, to have fun and to have fun!!!!!! When you are enjoying the time with this game, you wouldn't take into account that this game costs my time in real life. I do understand how that feeling hurts you. I have encountered the same occasion in MMO:DOC, which just shut down its Chinese Version and iPad version where players do not get any compensation! And the global version appears to be off soon. I get that you enjoy the game and it's great! You won championship and it's something, not everyone can achieve that, but imagine if you were competitive player in Hearthstone and won HS world championship. You'd become a star and probably could make living out of it by streams and further tournaments. Can SE provide such opportunities? I don't think so. I'm not saying this to diminish SE or anything, it's just I can't afford time to play a lot of games, so if I were to choose between SE and HS, I'd choose later and I did. I quit SE quite some time ago in favor of HS, I felt that every blunder Wulven made, Blizz got right. Blizz sacrificed their physical tcg in order to focus and provide superior quality of digital product, they understand that physical media becomes obsolete nowadays. Yet Wulven did exact opposite, started as digital company they decided to double dip in physical as well which was nothing but trouble, they had problems with manufacturing and delivery of cards, this decision slowed development process down to a crawl since no errata policy provoked by physical cards. Why did they do it? What they wanted to compete with MTG? Their game is not designed for physical play, same as Magic is not designed for digital play. I've seen pictures of people playing physical SE using iPads to track data, it's laughable. You see in Tcg's case money drain is amplified a lot since you offered to buy packs with random cards and fish for cards that you need, you can spend a lot and won't get what you want. It makes building your collection laborious and you grow an attachment to it. That's why I argued that closure of tcg would hurt owners probably more than any other game, they could've invested in their cards a lot. In Se's case getting cards is easier, but it's still a money/time investment nonetheless. Going to defend Se a bit here: carte was good, tried it, didn't know it closed. but sadly, yes, that's how the current gamer/developer situation is: $$$ in, but no guarantees of how long the game will last. I think before any purchase, the developer would have some clause stating that he/they won't be responsible if the game goes down tomorrow. Probably impossible to get the $$$ back. SE is a interesting model. There are new players coming in; the SE forums indicate new players joining and yes, old players are also leaving. SE is interesting becos Wulven is clearly a very small company and TBH, without the work of GDC, SE would have folded long ago. A fan i.e. GDC,is responsible for the (positive) state of SE now. SE is very fortunate to have GDC (Though I don't think SE/Kyle deserves GDC). SE owes whatever success they have now to GDC, not any wulven employeee. I wouldn't compare SE to any other dTcgs or game really. It's pretty much a small, indie game with a loyal fan base. It's profits is probably small....but that works cos Wulven is not a big company anyways. Any hope that SE will become really huge is just naive. What irks me is that Wulven/Kyle often tries to inflate/project itself as a company capable of great things. IMO, it's much better to be honest with oneself. Nothing wrong/bad with being small. As long as it's functional and working. It has NEVER been on time when it comes to delivery of promises and products. SF, in case anyone has forgotten or did not know, was supposed to be COMPLETED in JAN 2014. It's almost 2 years overdue and it probably will go beyond 2 years. (WC 2014 was played with placeholder cards and tbh, it's totally embarrassing for any game but it will went relatively ok) Why are players still sticking with SE then? (Even I am playing MD SE like a monster, top 50 every week) (I have my own reasons for leaving competitive pvp Se tourney scene) It's like having a old stupid dog. Yeah, it can't do/learn new tricks, but it's reliable and comforting. Sometimes it doesn't even behave normally on a normal day. In fact, the super slow pace of SE dev might just be the Right pace for some players. scary, but yeah. Carte has folded (so has my fav dTcg Assassin's creed), but at least SE is amazingly, still here. Ok, me back to bashing noobs in MD. I agree that SE is a special case. The big problem I had with it is that devs distanced themselves from community A LOT since SE beta when Kyle was available on forums, he was constantly discussing the game, he was interacting, he was hiring community members, but when I came to SE these times have ended already. When even company like Blizzard tries to interact and be community friendly, where as in their case it's much harder considering community's size. SE's community is smaller and dedicated, you have no right to abandon it, it's the only straw your game hanging by. Yet Kyle did. He was appearing on forums very rarely, even when he did he was replying arrogantly and was not trying to be friendly. Another example, NinjaDucky, when he got invited to dev team he disappeared from forums that after being one of the most active posters, he even changed his name to Sith. Wulven got multiple ridiculous non-disclosure policies only goal of which is to distance themselves from community. Why? IMO it's stupid and equals to biting the hand that feeds. The problem with these "fun hobby projects" and I think SE falls into this category is that they are driven by people's egos, and when this ego gets discouraged or insulted, the project suffers greatly, which I think what happened with Kyle.
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Raphael Majere
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Post by Raphael Majere on Dec 15, 2015 19:18:30 GMT
Someone mentioned at Se forums that blizz simply needs to assign a staff to monitor Se forums and make sure blizz don't make the same mistakes as Se/Kyle and also replicate all that Se has done right , resulting in successful HS. Se does have its hardcore fans and these people keep the game alive. I don't understand it myself but to each his own.
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Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Dec 15, 2015 21:27:07 GMT
Well Blizz know their stuff and they make a lot of money on their product, so they are forсed to make decisions that lead to maximizing profit where as Wulven may make decisions based on their ambitions and nothing else.
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vince1992
Grandmaster
SE World Champion 2015 & WC2014 Runner Up
Posts: 715
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Post by vince1992 on Dec 16, 2015 4:01:28 GMT
HS supported by the giant company has affordability to host big events and tournaments. Beyond that, competitive HS players can be full time players who can bear their lifes just by playing HS or do relevant things such as streaming. Yet that's the life I want. I enjoy playing games and enjoy the achievement in games. In heartsone, there is a lot of RNG which frustrates me a lot. If I take it really serious, I wont have any fun more. Anyway, if I have a chance and time to participate in hs tournaments, I would definitely go. No reason to refuse easy prize, right
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Bobbypim
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Warwizard of the Jutland Plains
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Post by Bobbypim on Dec 16, 2015 8:24:43 GMT
As seen by a new player I think SE can match HS and offers lots of fun! SE is a very good game that STILL have a lot of potential! BUT seen in my own perspective SE has very little to offer their most loyal players and that's why many - myself included tend to seek a new gaming thrill elsewhere. After 3 years of playing SE I'm simply not entertained by the game no more. The hype is gone and all the cards have been collected and that's also a huge issue. It's really bad for any collectable card games when so many people have so little (read nothing) left to optain. IT'S REALLY BAD! My hope is that a Blizzard size company spots and buys SE because they see the obivious potential of the game while at the same time spots all its weaknesses - and then redesigns and recodes the game. Maybe that's even what Kyle have been hoping for all along? But until that I guess we're stuck with a new SE expansion every 2-3 years Which is exactly why I one day months ago picked up my iPad and decided to reinstall the Hearthstone app. I actually tried HS out at the launch of the game but found it too RNG as others have as well and SE still had its hold on me so I never really got hooked on HS. But after being bored of playing the same SE cards and decks over and over again HS got a second chance and this time it got under my skin. I got the same feeling I had when I first picked up Magic and Shadow Era - you know that addictive feeling that urges you to play more and even more importantly collect more. Overestimated it's like discovering sex for the first time. But of course every BP knows this because the love for card games is what brought us together in the first place. I know at some point HS will start to bore me as well and maybe then SE will have something new to offer me. I hope so!
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Raphael Majere
Warrior
Ancient Man & Winner of Termania I
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Post by Raphael Majere on Dec 16, 2015 9:24:15 GMT
Yeah, nothing to collect and obtain is the greatest problem any current mobile game can have. A player shouldn't have to go to a forum to find tourneys or more fun; everything should be ingame.
That said, some games demand too much time. I left marvel puzzle quest precisely becos of that.
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