Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Jul 16, 2015 19:39:22 GMT
Tried out butcher for a little bit, and it's so much worse than a Thrall. Thrall's E can be used as Butcher's charge + it deals damage and heals you and can be used as escape all on the same time! Where as Butcher's charge can be used to run it, yes it does stun, but it's not such a big deal. Butcher's Q, I barely notice the slow, pretty useless ability, Thrall's lightning is so much better because it allows to finish off/poke enemy from range.
Now Butcher's brand, yes, it heals better than Thrall's passive but frostwolf resilience heals faster and passively, where as butcher's W requires you to tunnel damage the enemy, and enemies can run away from you most of the time.
Now, ultimates. Cauldron is too small of a radius and doesn't do all that much of a damage, Lamb to the slaughter allows you to do something in 1v1, the fact that you need ultimate for that is pretty sad, in more than 1v1 scenario, pretty useless ult, but I still like it the most about butcher so far.
Compare it to Thrall's sundering which can be used as engage, disengage, finishing move, good in 1v1 as well as teamfights, can affect unlimited amount of targets.
Butcher's passive allows you to increase attack damage, where as Thrall's attack damage is initially high and requires no passive, you lose your attack damage on death as Butcher, and it's annoying because Butcher is prone to dying. Butcher hits faster than Thrall though, but it barely matters because nobody will stand there taking your hits.
Mind you that Thrall is considered weak, tier 3 at best, yet Butcher is usually higher, lol, why? Just because he's new and people are hyped about him. Thrall does more burst, more mobile, just overall more flexible hero, even though it's not enough, Butcher doesn't have half of what Thrall has...
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lorgi
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Post by lorgi on Jul 16, 2015 23:22:13 GMT
the main piece of the puzzle imo is that butcher becomes unstoppable when he charges Thrall can be interrupted in countless ways, yes you can cleanse him preemptively, but then you don't have that cleanse to save you from opposing team's reaction and his burst and sustain are insane when he gets mommentum would Thrall be just as good with Uther watching his back? I doubt it, because you'd have to give him Shield or Cleanse preemptively, wasting 1-1.5 sec while he reaches his target stun>root makes butcher much bigger threat in roaming squads in early game too
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Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Jul 17, 2015 1:42:13 GMT
Unstoppable doesn't really do anything if you're not trying to escape, Butcher uses charge to engage, most likely he will be controlled after his charge.
Butcher has less burst than Thrall, his sustain is questionable as well because nobody but tank will stand there under your Butcher's mark and tank will most likely stun you or something. Where as Thrall with double resilience from E and triple strike from it can heal for about half of his HP from his E alone in about 3 seconds, then retreat with movement speed from E.
Both Thrall and Butcher have little survivability compared to Illidan who can dodge the bullet with his ult as well.
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Sailas
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Post by Sailas on Jul 17, 2015 13:43:50 GMT
About the butcher: His charge is much better than Thralls E to ensure the kill. Way too many people using butchers charge as an engage all the time. Sometimes it is a good engage but that is almost always too risky. Butcher charge is an excellent counter engage and it is pretty hard to beat as a finisher on a runner: huge range and it isn't a skillshot.
Butchers queue is a lot better than you make it seem. Talented correctly it is nearly spamable. Also butcher hits like a truck late game. Thrall hits super hard as well but his control and finishing ability is worse than butcher. I don't think butcher is OP or anything just giving my opinion on why people are favoring him over thrall.
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Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Jul 17, 2015 21:51:36 GMT
About the butcher: His charge is much better than Thralls E to ensure the kill. Way too many people using butchers charge as an engage all the time. Sometimes it is a good engage but that is almost always too risky. Butcher charge is an excellent counter engage and it is pretty hard to beat as a finisher on a runner: huge range and it isn't a skillshot. It's easy to run to your forst or your team where butcher will be butchered trying to secure a kill with his charge. His charge is just an invitation to overextend that's why he's so prone to dying. Thrall's ult is also good against runners, can finish them off from the distance and doesn't involve putting yourself at high risk. Maybe butcher's control is better but by very tiny bit, sacrificing a LOT of flexibility and survivability. If butcher loses his stacks late game he will hit for 300, so he needs to farm them beforehand, and what if you just got ressed and there's a battle going on and you don't have time? And people don't usually farm or soak late game, so you gona be like: "wait, guys, I gota farm meat, don't engage yet". So, you're dragging your team down by that, whole team won't be waiting for you farming meat, guarding you, if you go alone you'll get ganked, it's such a stupid and punishing mechanic IMO.
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lorgi
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Post by lorgi on Jul 17, 2015 23:52:38 GMT
18:05 probably the best move I've seen in this game so far
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Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Jul 18, 2015 1:13:29 GMT
18:05 probably the best move I've seen in this game so far Lol, reckt. I've never played with this talent btw.
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lorgi
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Post by lorgi on Jul 18, 2015 23:13:50 GMT
I can't play Tyrael but the talent is good for escapes and goes nicely with sanctification imo
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Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Jul 19, 2015 4:07:29 GMT
I can't play Tyrael but the talent is good for escapes and goes nicely with sanctification imo Ikr, I keep teleporting myself behind enemies' gates xDD
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Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Jul 22, 2015 8:01:44 GMT
Leoric is out, aaand he sucks XDD At least I don't like him. He has very little control for a tank, same goes for survivability, he's supposed to be a damaging variety, but some tanks out there have damage AND control, AND survivability, like Muradin, or Anub, so I don't see the point really.
Speaking of damage btw, he attacks REEEAAALLY slowly and hits for about 300 at lvl 20, so I'm not sure about his damaging potential either...
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lorgi
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Post by lorgi on Jul 22, 2015 17:30:28 GMT
I like him, he's a bully in early game I think he'll be played competitively in double tank comps his attacks are slow, but his range is a bit longer so that evens out imo
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Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Jul 22, 2015 18:40:29 GMT
I like him, he's a bully in early game I think he'll be played competitively in double tank comps his attacks are slow, but his range is a bit longer so that evens out imo Sure, but double tank comps usually only seen in competitive only, in other mods they aren't that useful since require a lot of team cooperation to be used correctly.
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lorgi
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Post by lorgi on Jul 31, 2015 20:12:41 GMT
Aferesyou were talking about lockdown compositions earlier, so take a look at this
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Aferes
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Post by Aferes on Aug 7, 2015 13:00:28 GMT
Aferesyou were talking about lockdown compositions earlier, so take a look at this Nice this actually looks like fun to try out . Beware the stuns...
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Sailas
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Post by Sailas on Aug 7, 2015 13:02:24 GMT
Looking forward to the new heroes and map, but disappointed we don't have a date on the first season of HL and Grandmaster rank. I feel like I've been treading water at tank 1 forever! How are the rest of you guys doing?
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lorgi
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Post by lorgi on Aug 7, 2015 19:48:09 GMT
I still don't play HL XD I'm trying to save up cash by manipulating dailies, HL could interfere with it
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Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Aug 7, 2015 22:25:13 GMT
I don't play HL for couple of reasons:
1. When you go alone you're very likely to get screwed with teammates and you will get screwed in game and lose. Which leads to:
2. You'll get normalized and you will receive less points than you lose which makes climbing horrible grind, even more frustrating than it was before. Where as it is possible to get rank 1 just in 20+ games IF you don't lose at all, which is possible if you getting boosted with some group.
But I don't bother with finding groups and trying hard, I much rather play for fun.
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lorgi
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Post by lorgi on Aug 7, 2015 22:43:53 GMT
I could probably play in a team though, I don't find solo grinding fun
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Unruler
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Post by Unruler on Aug 7, 2015 23:05:25 GMT
I could probably play in a team though, I don't find solo grinding fun 3 player team is optimal so you don't get matched against 5 stack. But still, even one bad player could ruin the game.
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Sailas
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Post by Sailas on Aug 8, 2015 23:44:13 GMT
I solo'd to 1 and I still solo at 1. Certainly there are frustrating moments and losing goes with the territory, you just can't get discouraged.
I would love to play with a good team all the time but it just doesn't work with my schedule. I play games here and there and I can't have people depending on or waiting for me.
To me I get less frustrated with HL. The draft format allows us to at least have some control. QM is a crapshoot in every regard.
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